*!$%&£! oppressive diet culture

[ajva]

Im very confussed about something, I dont eat alot, or on a regular basis, but when I do eat I get all the essitials...well atleast try to, I dont eat chips, or big out on bon bons or anything, But I just cant lose weight if anything ive packed it on more then lost it, I dont know If its all the caffine I drink thru out the day, ive heard thats a bad thing, or if im just naturally fat, how can my eating help me lose weight, and is the caffine im drinking a bigger issure then the food im eating?
-Dallas

An average comment from caloriecounter.co.uk, also the site of gems like this one:

I hate myself so much. I weigh 140 Lbs. and I am 5'5" I just started not Eating anything, because nothing else works. I have tryed everything and nothing will work, so this is my only option. I don't even care if I die, I would rather be dead than continue life fat. Seriouslly, I hate myself so much. I don't think about anything except for how fat I am. I can't take it anymore. Please help me.

and this:

Recent studies show that fasting can be really good for you in moderation and it doesn't neccasseraly mean no food at all, it can mean just liquids so that you can have soups and things. Fasting should not be 10 days at a time if your nat experienced. Try 1-2 days a week for a while. If you fast not only does it give your organs a little break it also flushes your body out of all toxins and impurities as well as burning off excess fat.

TIPS FOR FASTING-
1) Drink plenty of water do prevent dehydration.
2) boil veg and drink the broth so that you still get essential vitamins.
3) take calcium supplements.
4) meditate and keep your self busy.
5) dont eat loads after ending a fast, slowly re-introduce fruit and fibre first and then the rest a few days later

I HATE THIS FUCKING INJUSTICE!!!!!!!!! IT'S A FUCKING SCANDAL TO BRING UP LITTLE GIRLS TO BELIEVE THAT IF THEY EAT A CERTAIN AMOUNT, AND EXERCISE A CERTAIN AMOUNT, THEN THEY WILL ACHIEVE THE IDEAL WEIGHT AND IF THEY DO NOT IT IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!!! IT'S A FUCKING LIE!!!! I WOULD NEVER LOOK SLIM UNLESS I WERE DYING!!! AND IT'S SO ALL-PREVALENT AND ACCEPTED AND INSIDIOUS THAT EVERYBODY BELIEVES IT, EVEN A LITTLE BIT!!! SO LET'S GO OVER THAT AGAIN, AND ASK YOURSELVES THIS TIME HOW MUCH YOU AGREE WITH WHAT I SAID "I WOULD NEVER LOOK SLIM UNLESS I WERE DYING". NO - YOU DON'T FUCKING BELIEVE IT, DO YOU - A PART OF YOU THINKS THAT IF I DIETED AND EXERCISED ENOUGH I WOULD BECAUSE ISN'T THAT THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD? BUT NO IT FUCKING ISN'T BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE HUMAN BODY OR THE NORMAL DISTRIBUTION WORK!!!! SO IF EVEN YOU LIBERALS THINK LIKE THIS, AND IF EVEN DOCTORS THINK LIKE THIS THEN WHAT FUCKING HOPE IS THERE THAT WE WILL EVER BE FREE? AAAAAAARGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!! IT MAKES ME SO FUCKING ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comments

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Fat activism is in the doldrums in the UK at present. Shelley Bovey who was one of the leaders of "the movement" has been on an extremely restrictive diet for over a year.

I dont think fat activism has any chance of changing attitudes on a grand scale. The slimming industry and the health lobby are just too huge and powerful, and ultimately the vast majority of women care far more about pleasing their partners and being liked and accepted than about politics, whatever statements they may make to the contrary.

Having been harassed and tormented about my size by family, friends, lovers and total strangers for as long as I can remember, I would certainly take a pill which made me slim overnight rather than campaign for a lifetime, so I include myself in the "vast majority" of women I talk about above. I was a size 14 and weighed 10 stone at the age of 14 - even today unlikely to be classified as obese. I spent my teens, twenties and early thirties on every kind of diet. I frequently "suceeded" in losing weight but always regained all the weight I had lost and more. I believe this is why I became diabetic.

I dont "diet" any more, because I believe the only way I will lose any noticeable amount of weight and keep it off is to severely restrict my food intake and combine this with rigorous exercise for the rest of my life. Even then I dont think I would ever be "acceptably" slim. Note however that I am not saying I will never diet again, because the pressure really is too great for me to ever have confidence that I could say this and mean it.

If you do decide to get some kind of activism together then good luck, but I note that every woman who has commented here is either on a diet or thinks she should be, with the exception of Anne.

yes

[ajva.livejournal.com]

A very eloquent summary of the problem. I'd also note, though, that women tend to want to be slimmer than their male partners want them to be, so there has to be something else going on here. I sometimes wonder if the dieting impulse is a fundamental in some primitive way that is obscured by the fact it is hyped up sociologically by ideas of patriarchy, health, feminism, class politics etc. Maybe the problem goes deeper.

I am something of a natural optimist and would like to think that every social problem can be solved in the long run, but it is difficult to see the solution here, I admit. I wish I understood entirely what the problem was.

Re: yes

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I was careful to say "partners" rather than male partners, and to add the issue of wanting to be accepted and liked generally,not just by partners. There probably is a lot of complex murky pyschological stuff going on in addition to what I specify.

Re: yes

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

For example, we learn to associate food with love or at least parental(and still more often than not this means maternal) approval while still non verbal. For some babies being fed might be the only time they get any sort of physical affection. For some toddlers they may only get a smile when they "eat it all up like a good girl/boy". Even in cases not as extreme as this, children learn to use "the food weapon" on their parents, refusing to eat to get attention, agreeing to eat only certain foods to get attention - and parents use it on their children, rewarding "good" behaviour with food as treat, often "unhealthy " food, such as ice cream for being quiet in a supermarket for example.

So there is a complex series of associations set up at an early age between punishment, reward,mother love, joy , sorrow and food at a very early age. When does body image/awareness come into the mix? Who knows, but a mother putting a six year old child on a diet is clearly gonna have a hell of an impact....and I have not even got onto sexual awareness yet!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: yes

[jhg.livejournal.com]

I sometimes wonder if the dieting impulse is a fundamental in some primitive way that is obscured by the fact it is hyped up sociologically by ideas of patriarchy, health, feminism, class politics etc. Maybe the problem goes deeper.

Yes, the available evidence certainly points towards that conclusion.

I wonder what Mr. Romana would have to say about that?


J

[trishpiglet.livejournal.com]

I note that every woman who has commented here is either on a diet or thinks she should be, with the exception of Anne.


I'm not on a diet. A while ago I thought I should be. I don't now. And I'm not Anne.

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Ok, more accurately that should be "has very recently said that she thought she should be thinner/should be on a diet".

[trishpiglet.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I feel included now.

[ajva.livejournal.com]

All of us are included in this. You don't need to reject dieting personally to be part of the struggle against it. It helps, but it's a very difficult habit to break and in the meantime you might as well be speaking out against it. :o)

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Good. However, if you still define as emphatically not a feminist I think you might find getting seriously involved in fat activism a little challenging.

[trishpiglet.livejournal.com]

Good. However, if you still define as emphatically not a feminist I think you might find getting seriously involved in fat activism a little challenging.

Who? me?

Thanks for your words of caution, however...

I have a strong interest in being anti-diet at the moment. I have a partner with an eating disorder who appears to be getting more ill with it lately. This causes me a lot of pain, anger & confusion as I try to do and say things that will help.

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

Ouch. *sympathies*

Unfortunately, as someone recovering from an eating disorder myself, I'm not sure there is *anything* a partner can say or do that will help. I'm not sure how typical I am, but in my case relying too much on other people's opinion of what I was eating, how my body looked and so on was a major part of the pathology, which made it extremely difficult for anyone to actively help without just contributing to the vicious circle.

The best thing anyone can usually do for me is not to comment on my eating unless I seek out advice. I think I've finally reached the stage where I can enjoy and respond positively to nice comments about my body, but I wouldn't have been able to do so when the illness was bad - they would just lead me to lose respect for the person paying the compliment.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I note that every woman who has commented here is either on a diet or thinks she should be, with the exception of Anne.

It's true I'm trying to lose weight at the moment, but that's my choice, and I have three good reasons for it.

1. I'm unhappy with my body image. I'd like to be physically stronger, and have more energy.
2. I know from my family history that the women in my family (father's side) have a tendency to become unhealthily overweight in their mid- to late-20s, and also that their is a history of heart problems and high blood pressure in my family
3. If my weight is stable, and I remain active, it's easier for me to keep an eye on my thyroid levels and know if I need to visit the doctor for tests, since signs of deficiency include lethargy and weight gain.

I'm not dieting to lose huge amounts of weight. I wouldn't be unhappy to shed a couple of stone, it's true, but if my weight stabilises at a bit more than that, I'm not going to be too upset.
Point being, this is my body, and these are my choices. They're rational and valid.

[ajva.livejournal.com]

This is exactly it, Karen. This is exactly the problem. There is no need to get defensive here - nobody's blaming you for diet oppression or insisting you become all militant and deliberately become very obese to make a political point. I'm not going to criticise you for wanting to lose weight. I'm criticising the culture. But you say it is a "valid choice" for you to do so. this is true to the extent that you are free to do as you please IMO, but it is untrue in the very crucial sense that you, as well as other women, have no choice whatsoever in this matter. If you were truly free to make a decision you would not consider yourself excessively overweight. You would like your body and not feel pressure to get smaller. Who told you you should be smaller? The oppressive, profit-making diet culture. Is it right? No. Is it your fault that you want to lose weight anyway? No. Do you need to lose weight? No. Is this a valid, freely-informed choice? No. You choose to diet much as a lab rat chooses to scarper round a maze in a laboratory.

This is exactly the problem, Karen. Your reasons make sense on the surface but dieting won't help with them. You are made a victim by this and it isn't your fault, but please don't think you are free in your making of choices because none of us is. I am not blaming you. I am blaming the pressure. Please don't take offence here. I understand the urge to diet as I've felt it myself.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I disagree. To do what the majority do is implicitly not a free choice? Well, if that's not a free choice, then in what way is deciding not to do it 'free'? There's no choice at all. You're either an automaton, or rebelling for its own sake.

To my mind, that's analogous with saying that someone who practices monogamy is wrong, because that's what the majority of people do. Even if that person has truly considered the options, maybe even tried other lifestyles and decided that this one is right for them, they can't be making a rational choice but are just giving in to social conditioning?

[ajva.livejournal.com]

Crucial element in my argument: dieting doesn't work.

So what good is dieting for your health issues?

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

On the health side, a diet that cuts down my intake of saturated fats will mean I'm less likely to have a heart attack when I'm in my 40s, and end up in hospital and on even more meds for the rest of my life, or dead like my Aunt Mary, or my grandfather who I never met.

On the image side, dieting to lose weight, for me, is a form of body-modification. You wouldn't be angry at me if I wanted to, say, die my hair blue, get a tattoo or pierce my nipples (ow!), so why is this particular choice about how I want my body to look so contentious?

[ajva.livejournal.com]

You wouldn't be angry at me if I wanted to...

I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you. I am not angry at you.

Right, now we've got that out of the way...

ergotia has already said that she believes her constant dieting was a factor in her development of diabetes. There are severe health risks to dieting, but you are still saying you need to do it to be healthier?

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Absolutely - you should not be defensive about wanting to lose weight any more than anyone should be defensive about not losing weight(a *possible* exception to the latter might be where someone has been advised unequivocally that if they do not lose weight they will drastically shorten their life expectancy, such advice being founded on irrefutable research funded by a nuetral body).

To my mind fat activism involves women supporting each other in whatever choices they make about their body size, but this also involves supportive non - critical consideration of the reasons given for those choices. For example, why do you think you will have more energy if you lose weight? I mean, you might, but there might be a number of other reasons why you have less energy now than you did at whatever time you are comparing yourself to.

Please dont take any of these comments as personal criticisms , because they are not.

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Although, picking holes in my own example, a)no such thing as a neutral body b)still the choice of the person concerned, at least for me because I support the right to commit suicide. I guess such choices are still subject to criticism, but that does not mean person so choosing should be defensive in an emotionally negative way.

[ajva.livejournal.com]

:o)

Well, absolutely. Choice in the sense that we have complete free will - of course. At one level everything has to be a choice. But there are free choices, educated choices, informed and uninformed choices, hopeful choices, group choices, individual choices and choices just generally influenced by things other than the entity making the choice.

But yes, choice nevertheless. All I'm saying is that in a less oppressive culture the menu of choices could be broader. :o)

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

For example, why do you think you will have more energy if you lose weight?

I always have more energy at times when I cut down on the fat and sugar in my diet - I've done this several times, either in an attempt to lose weight, or as a detox exercise.

[jhg.livejournal.com]

Ah, right, fair enough then.

We really should define 'diet', or list some sub-categories of it if we're going to get in an, ah, discussion like this...


J

[jhg.livejournal.com]

It's true I'm trying to lose weight at the moment, but that's my choice, and I have three good reasons for it.

1. I'm unhappy with my body image. I'd like to be physically stronger, and have more energy.

I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of 'freedom of choice', and the rights and wrongs of these things. Plenty of time for that in September, and I wouldn't dare interfere.

I would, however point out that while being 'unhappy with my body image' is a valid (but not necessarily good) reason to diet, being 'physically stronger and [having] more energy' is not.

Dieting* will not make you physically stronger - potentially the reverse! Exercise, and ensuring you eat enough protien, calcium etc. will; dieting will not.

Again dieting* will not give you more energy - it is hard to see how restricting your energy source will do this. Exercise, enough vitamins, and cutting out nicotine and caffeine will, however.

I'm pretty sure that at least some doctors & nutritionists will support me here.


J

*I take this to mean restricting your food intake in some way - as is traditionally used in an attempt to lose weight. As opposed to (say) ensuring you get plenty of vitamins, minerals, protien etc. in order to stay healthy.