no offence intended to the religious...
Feb. 26th, 2004 04:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ajva...but given the recent leap in religion-related sentiment on LJ (largely because we've just entered the Lent period, I think), I just felt it was important to say this:
I am an atheist, and I count myself lucky every day that I am.
I recognise that this, too, is a faith position, and that the only logically impregnable position is that of agnosticism. Therefore I am posting this not so much to undermine those who give witness to their religious faith, but because due to the non-evangelical nature of atheism, we hardly ever see anyone witnessing to their non-religiousness, and I felt a little balance was in order. I fully respect others' religious beliefs, and wish merely to express my equivalent.
I believe there is no God, no higher power, and I count myself as completely unspiritual. I believe that human beings have no souls beyond that which is a side effect of the architecture of their bodies and their brains. I believe that when we die, we completely cease to exist.
I am often irritated by many people's (not on LJ) assumption that not being a member of a particular religion makes my beliefs somehow negative. For me, atheism is a positive, empowering belief. To me, it means that I alone am responsible for me, my life, and my impact on the world. Only I can solve my problems and realise my dreams; only I am responsible for the good and the bad that I do for or to myself and others. I must make for myself my own purpose, and it is a challenge I enjoy anew every single day.
May your ways likewise bring you peace.
I am an atheist, and I count myself lucky every day that I am.
I recognise that this, too, is a faith position, and that the only logically impregnable position is that of agnosticism. Therefore I am posting this not so much to undermine those who give witness to their religious faith, but because due to the non-evangelical nature of atheism, we hardly ever see anyone witnessing to their non-religiousness, and I felt a little balance was in order. I fully respect others' religious beliefs, and wish merely to express my equivalent.
I believe there is no God, no higher power, and I count myself as completely unspiritual. I believe that human beings have no souls beyond that which is a side effect of the architecture of their bodies and their brains. I believe that when we die, we completely cease to exist.
I am often irritated by many people's (not on LJ) assumption that not being a member of a particular religion makes my beliefs somehow negative. For me, atheism is a positive, empowering belief. To me, it means that I alone am responsible for me, my life, and my impact on the world. Only I can solve my problems and realise my dreams; only I am responsible for the good and the bad that I do for or to myself and others. I must make for myself my own purpose, and it is a challenge I enjoy anew every single day.
May your ways likewise bring you peace.
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Date: 2004-02-26 08:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-26 08:50 am (UTC)I claim atheism isn't a faith, it's just the null hypothesis.
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Date: 2004-02-26 08:51 am (UTC)xxxx
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Date: 2004-02-26 09:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-26 10:25 am (UTC)Well, you're in the right country - see http://www.livejournal.com/users/jhg/162002.html
I recognise that this, too, is a faith position
Yes - this is something I have come to realise in my years of philosophical study. This has made me more critical of my own beliefs, and less condescending towards those who profess religion.
I still identify as, if anything, an atheist and a humanist.
I really do believe in the power of human potential and human goodness... this is also a faith position.
J
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Date: 2004-02-26 01:16 pm (UTC)Also an atheist - Trish xxx
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Date: 2004-02-26 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-27 12:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-27 12:40 am (UTC)Only I can solve my problems and realise my dreams; only I am responsible for the good and the bad that I do for or to myself and others.
Something I would add, for me: only I am ultimately responsible for defining what 'good' and 'bad' are, for me. While in one sense that makes them arbitrary - and I acknowledge that - it also places a huge responsibility on me, if I have any pretence to being ethical, to think carefully and at length about the definitions. I can build on what other people have thought, and my views may come very close to being the same as the views of a particular ethical (or religious) movement, but ultimately it's my decision and my responsibility to say 'yes, those work for me'.
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Date: 2004-02-27 05:08 am (UTC)I'd love to believe that but I can't. The idea horrifies and terrifies me. (Not that it's wrong - it's just not for me.)
If I +were+ an atheist, I'd give it up for lent.
sorry...
Date: 2004-02-27 05:45 am (UTC)i believe utterly that 'we' cease ter exist on death, but the world 'n' all it's struggles, misery, potential and joy goes on. the thought of absolute personal elimination doesn't scare me, it inspires me. because wot survives of us is the impact we make on the world...all the people we've ever inter-reacted wiv are changed by that interaction, and that survives. the good (or evil) we 'ave achieved survives, and so i feel inspired ter make connections and (as a marxist - above all) ter make a bleeding difference ter the world.
fer me this is one of the great consolations of atheism.
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Date: 2004-03-09 01:40 pm (UTC)to u dealth is something taffiying a thing in which u seace to exist. to me im saved.
to u the world is a random conmitic event. thers nothing better or worce than this hell whole we call home. i dare to hope that theres sumthing pure out there.
another thing........wut do u think the odds are that everything worked out and we randomly got here? not good i tell u.
anywewy thats all i had to say. bye. sry if u take offence.
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Date: 2004-03-10 02:01 am (UTC)Thanks for taking the time to reply. :o)
I think some people might take offence to being pitied (especially by a stranger on LJ!), but I don't, 'cos I understand where you are coming from.
When I was between the ages of 12 and 18, I too was a committed Christian. When I was 18 I decided I was wrong, and I realised that the world was actually a much more complicated place than I had previously thought, and that I understood a lot less about it than I thought I did.
I'm now really old! (30! Eeek!) and a much happier person than I was back then. Had LJ been around in those days, I might well have done as you are doing now, and tried to help someone "see the light".
Don't worry - I know all the arguments; I've heard them all a thousand times before, and spoken them too! There is nothing you could say right now that would change my mind, and nothing I could say that would change yours. So let's agree to disagree!
You must remember that, the UK (and Europe more generally) has a tradition of continually questioning one's beliefs in an attempt to get at the real truth, such as it is. The fact is, neither you or I can be sure that we are correct, because it is not possible to prove that there is a God, and it is not possible to prove that there isn't.
But one thing's for sure - we can't *both* be right. If you are correct, then you shouldn't pity me, because I have made my choice and will stick by it in front of your God. But if I'm right, then you are living a lie in order to stave off the horrible truth that you will cease to exist when you die, whereas I have some to terms with it and am at peace with it. But I shouldn't pity you either, because your faith helps you as once it helped me.
It is possible that by the time you turn 30 you might agree with me. And it is possible we shall never agree. But either way, I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
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Date: 2004-03-11 01:42 pm (UTC)i no were agreeing 2 disagree but ok i just have opne thing...
so wut if im wrong? mayb i will cheaser to exist when i die. but....christanity has good morals doesn't it? if i follow through then i'd hopefully of had good morals and lived a good life and helped ppl and left my mark. so y not just believe in make sure that if there is good then well ill b w/ him? jw. thanks 4 letting me c it from ur point of view :) i really never new all that much about athists.
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Date: 2004-03-09 03:51 pm (UTC)i would also like to say a study found praying to be benifical to those prayed for for sum info search it on google!!
a good site thing is
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:DcezB0IjjyUJ:www.peter-s-williams.co.uk/Books/Spiritual%2520Warfare%2520and%2520the%2520Armour%2520of%2520God/Armour%2520IX.rtf+30%25+better+recovery+rate+of+those+who+were+prayed+for&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
or
http://1stholistic.com/Prayer/hol_prayer_proof.htm
plz give me ur explation of this.
plz note: im trying to convbert you. i just letting u no my side of the story and trying to better understand yours.
~Ana